00:00hi this is Nate from Harvey Asana and Spa today we're talking with Eric Lee researcher at the University of uvascular who specializes in cardiovascular health and sauna use in this interview we touch on topics such as cardiovascular health exercise the benefits of sauna the connection between all three as it's supported by his most recent research Eric welcome to hot review thank you very much we've got some time here for an interview with you and we've heard all about some of the research that you've done with sauna yep some of the research you've collaborated with uvascular University here yes um why don't you start from the beginning and tell us a little bit how you started getting interested in saunas right and the research that you do with the cardiovascular system okay so I'll answer the first question how I got started with the sauna well
01:00there's two parts to it um the first part is when I was a competitive athlete I used to use the sauna a lot mostly for making weight so trying to get some water weight off my body okay subsequently I moved into uh more serious training I was still a competitive athlete but my training had a it was a bit too strenuous so it had a very disturbing effect on my muscles I had these very severe cramps um especially on my on my legs so my quads and my hamstrings and uh I would have a cramp on my vastus medialis which is the muscle closest to the knee if I extended my leg so I couldn't extend my leg so I had to flex my knee and when I flex my knee my hamstrings would cramp and I had to walk like that because if I bend my knee too much then my hamstrings gonna cram if I straighten my knee too much my quads are going to cram that happens whenever I
02:00whenever I had a strenuous workout so one of the suggestions that my co-workers at the time suggested to me was to use the sauna after training he said he claimed that it would help I said okay let's let's give it a shot and it did it did for at least 30 minutes after the after the sauna it was not cramping up how I got into cardiovascular physiology and the sauna was a bit of a Serendipity so I wasn't sure what kind of sauna research was being done when I wanted to do it but I was told that my present supervisor Dr Yari laukanan he was working towards publishing research about the sauna at the time when I met him so he roped me in okay not knowing that I
03:00was already interested in the topic and of course the discussion was short and when he gave me the suggestion would you like to do research regarding the sauna since you're interested in cardiovascular physiology which is primarily my passion and my area of Interest I jumped on it and I said yes sure of course so short discussion a couple of papers later you know we we've achieved quite a lot of we've acquired a lot of additional knowledge that we pulled together to help in in my opinion try to advance the feel of soundline cardiovascular physiology study how does the sauna perhaps like make an impact for the average person with an average non-athlete type cardiovascular system a lot of the research on on the effects of the sauna isn't conducted on the average population which is which is the problem we are facing in the field so they've seen positive effects right but then we
04:00have seen positive effects of these of heat therapy using the sauna on the extreme ends of the population so I'm going to talk about very sick people the clinical population those with chronic heart failure rest of the research that has been done that I mentioned earlier they were done on athletic population right so then that is on the other end of the spectrums and so the research that I've just published recently is one step toward understanding um what we're going to do with using the sauna and how we can best try to exploit I would use the word exploit the different variables that we can we can modify in sauna usage to give the average person the best benefit so coming back to that first question for the average person now it's it's important to understand that the body adapts to stress
05:00any kind of stress and as long as if it's exerted on the physiological system so for the average person I'd usually would suggest that if they're just starting out using the sauna they could maybe use it for once a week for the first one to three weeks and then after that increase it to twice a week and then subsequently increase it to three times a week the number of bouts is up to the individual some people do four some people do six you know um I usually do about three yes about two or three really is right I get comfortable yeah yeah yeah exactly so that's like three or four has been has been touted to be something that's comfortable for the average person yeah now bearing that in mind if you do that and you stick to doing that then you have less things to sort of like monitor you know what I mean so then you could go okay I'll go once a week three bouts you know every time I'm
06:00there I'll just do three bouts okay now I'm gonna go twice a week okay but I'm still doing three bouts and that way you can increase the amount of stress that's one way right the next way would be to keep the same number of times you visit sauna so once a week right but then over time say over the course of again two to three weeks later increase the number of bouts you go to so instead of three you go four right and then you go five then you go six you know and then because that creates sort of like an additional level of heat stress right for the system to adapt to right yeah could you give us a summary or like a too long didn't read uh version of the results of your study could you give us a summary sure so compared to exercise exercise plus sauna regularly both of them regular exercise plus regular sauna confers more benefits
07:00and these benefits are seen via the increase or there's more increase in VO2 max compared to just exercise exercise also increases VO2 max but not to the extent that exercise plus sauna gives it it decreases blood pressure it's particularly systolic blood pressure in the study we didn't find that exercise reduced any of the blood pressures that we measured but exercise plus sauna there was a reduction in systolic blood pressure and also we could say the same for total cholesterol levels it was also reduced whereas with exercise we didn't see that reduction okay and again these participants that you have were average relatively sedentary sedentary uh it's it's very important to highlight that they were not only sedentary but they also did not go to the sauna often these are people who do not use the sound that frequently
08:00okay I make that I make that point particularly because there's been a lot of criticism for the studies that we've conducted earlier that the reviewers have said that oh um how do we know these results are going to be found can be found in the regular population because the research that you've conducted on are on the Finnish population who goes through the sauna frequently so maybe these results are only seen because they go to the sauna regularly their body has adapted so we we sort of made sure that in this study that the the participants in this most recent study they are sound and naive so okay yeah just based on my understanding of science there is a ceiling I.E there there is a point of diminishing returns you'll get to a point where doing more sauna will not necessarily give you additional benefit but there's also a
09:00floor there is a minimum for instance I'm going to go out on a limb and say this it's all speculation we'll have to do some research to find out but I'm pretty sure that the floor is probably twice a week okay going to the sound not twice a week now you can quote me but I have no research to back me up we do have some research that has shown that going to the sauna twice a week is effective for other things such as chronic tension headache and also for reduction of incidence of colds right but that's not where my postulation comes from because I'm if we were to look at exercise as something that's comparable to the sauna or actually the other way around if we were to look at sauna that's comparable to exercise then what's recommended is to exercise two to three times a week right the bare minimum to exercise if you exercise
10:00twice then you probably have to up the intensity of your exercise if you exercise three times then you probably keep it at a moderate level therefore in that same way you'd subject your body to that amount of heat stress as well okay yeah that's how I kind of establish that relationship yeah yeah that's how I think about it but you're the expert so sure you can make those kind of postulations right [Music]